A Different View Of Depression
Oct 4th, 2008 by zania
Depression Can Produce Greatness
Yesterday I produced a rather melancholy post. Feeling thoroughly ‘down’, and in need of an outlet, I vented a little in here about the constant cycle of stress and depression I appeared to be putting myself through.
To tell the truth, I really do not feel much better yet. Nevertheless, as I seem to do some of my best research when I am depressed (on depression of course…), I have been busy, and it’s all down to a comment left by Andy Alt, who writes Mental Dimensions. Andy is a regular commenter here and I owe him more than the scant attention to his own blog I have been giving at the moment (as I do all others I used to comment regularly to…), so I hope he understands.
Anyway, Andy recommended I read a book called Lincolns Melancholy. I haven’t as yet (that is a link to a discussion of the book suggested by Andy), but I certainly intend to do so very soon (allowing for Spanish mail…). The main page to the website for Lincolns Melancholy is here.
Now, contrary to what some US Citizens think, us non-Americans have heard of Abraham Lincoln 
In fact, he is usually highly regarded as one of ‘the greats’ of recent history. But as it happens, I had read a great deal about Lincoln, because my thesis for my first degree was on world anti-slavery movements, so naturally Lincoln played a part in that. I had also read of Lincoln’s depression, but only in passing, because that was not my main focus at the time.
But reading about the ‘melancholy’ Abraham Lincoln suffered is astounding, in that it proposes a whole new way of thinking about Depression and related illnesses.
The author, Joshua Wolf Shenk, has struggled with depression himself, so he is not just using the illness as a ‘useful topic for a book’. Researching and writing took him several years of intensive study. And from his research he has produced an astounding theory: that it was in struggling with, facing up to, and learning to cope with his severe depression that Lincoln was not only able to achieve greatness, but to profoundly affect the course of American history.
According to Sherik, Lincoln’s melancholy gave him a “depressive realism” that he was able to utilise, in a way that gave him not only a deeper understanding of human frailties, but the means to working with them to convince people of the ‘rightness’ of his anti-slavery proposals. And that:
“the depths of emotion that he explored as a result of his depression contributed to a deep creative capacity — as a writer and thinker.”
Now to me, that is an extremely positive approach to depression. This is not dismissing the dreadful affects of depression, but is suggesting that the modern day stigma still often attributed to depression is totally unfounded. Those of us who suffer from depression, dysthymia, bipolar disorder, or any other forms of depressive illness, are not ‘rejects who need to sort themselves out’. In fact, many of us are actually very gifted individuals who, despite our illness (or even sometimes because of it) can contribute greatly to society.
The review took me deeper into looking at the type of depression Lincoln may have suffered from. The author suggests hypomania as a contributing factor. Hypomania is a ‘mild’ form of mania, it may be associated with Bipolar 11 Disorder, but is not considered as severe, in that people can still function in everyday life and their hypomania can actually help them achieve their aims and feel good. Of course, the downside is a following on depression…sound familiar?
(And that took me even further, into looking at treatments for hypomania and possible drug interractions which also sound rather familiar, but I’ll leave that for another post)
What I discovered from reading about the book (ordered by the way) and looking into this whole hypothesis deeper myself, is that a lot of my suspicions are confirmed (if you agree with the book anyway):
- People who suffer from depression are often very gifted individuals, but it is not necessarily their gifts which lead to their depression, but the depressive personality which enforces their gifts.
- Depression makes a person go deeper inside themselves and this can bring with it a greater intuition which can not only help them cope with life but also achieve great things.
- Hypomania can have positive as well as negative affects, which needs to be taken into account when medically prescribing for this illness.
- Telling someone to ‘think positive’ in the ‘personal development’ sense is not the best course of action for someone suffering from depression. It conflicts with the “depressive realism” most of us appear to have. That realism would be better put to good effect, rather than struggling to overcome it.
I urge you to read this book. If researching just the review gave me these thoughts, then I for one am really looking forward for the book itself to arrive. It may not provide all the answers, but anything rather than the constant ’sameness’ of ‘depression help’ offered today appears to me to be a definite plus factor.
And, if ‘thinking positive’ from a depressive point of view sounds like a contradiction to you, let’s just say I think it is going to give me more scope to face up to my depression for what it is: an illness like any other and something to be dealt with, using all helpful means available, rather than stigmatized and fought against with little reward.
A good read that should offer some comfort to anyone who suffers from depression. Thanks for posting it. Depression is more common than most people think and it is great that people are beginning to start talking about it. Just talking about it allows for some people to get the help they need, leading to them having richer, fuller lives.
Best,
Frank Miller
Yeah thanks Frank.
Btw, I took that second link out.
If anyone wants to have a look at your site they can go there from your signature quite easily.
You never know, they might even click on your adsense links too…
Zania, with regards to your prior knowledge of Abe Lincoln, I would like to clarify something from my original comment.
I noticed your smiley face after you said
but I don’t know how serious you are so I’ll just be transparent about one of the ways I interact with people. I could sit here, on my American soil, and believe that every one in the world could name each American president, no matter how obscure or how popular.
Basically I was faced with two choices: assume you knew, or assume you didn’t know. I chose not be an arrogant American who thinks everyone knows about American history, but instead chose to be an American who is ignorant about what other citizens of the world are taught and what they learn.
It comes down to the fact that I used to do quality assurance at work, and one habit I took from that is “never assume.”
I’m not trying to make a big deal out of your one innocent sentence by writing all that, but just wrote it for the same of communication and friendship.
How could I be offended by that after you wrote such complimentary things about me? 
As for this overall post, I really enjoyed it. I thought it was a good analysis of what your research has turned up so far. What you wrote is far more than I could have effectively put into words. I will try to add some insight or whatever and stuff here now though (I haven’t yet on my own site). From chapter 3 of Lincoln’s Melancholy:
I nearly jumped from my chair when I read that. I had already felt that about isolation to a degree being a necessity, and thought about it sometimes, but to read it in black and white was very nice, and a relief in a way. Paraphrasing my thoughts,
One question I have for you Zania, when you said,
I’d like to assume that you were already aware of the link between creativity and “mental illness” and the many historical figures who are now said to have had a “mental illness.” The statement you made about your suspicions being confirmed sounded to me as though you still had doubts. I didn’t have any doubts about creativity and mental illness before I read the book, but reading the book really helped drill it into me more. What made it more “real” for me was that my “condition” is extremely similar to that of Lincoln’s, down to having feelings of “predestination,” including severe feelings of disappointment or depression that accompany both minor and major successes. Of course I can’t ever tell anyone I sometimes in the past have had feelings of predestination, because that means I’m mentally ill with feelings of grandiosity and an over-inflated ego. So I’ll have to keep that a secret. Just between you and I and the rest of the Internet now. You see what a special person you are to me, Zania?
I actually have a little consolation that I’m not so mentally ill: one time a good friend of mind told me he thought I had a great destiny. This was at a time when I was having more severe depression, trouble working, had never written anything (not anything he’d read), so honestly I’m not even sure what he saw in me; but of course, I’m still open to the possibility that he and I are both wrong.
The guy who told me was a stable guy, married, two long-term jobs, kids, and a house. He was a good worker, a good family man, a good friend. All the time and times he talked with me; he saved my life I’m sure.
My point is, Zania, I’m sure you’ll like the book. It made a lot of sense to me, and it will probably confirm even more of your “suspicions.”
Google adsense? I haven’t seen those ads in almost two years. Are they still being used? Haven’t most people started using Adblock Plus? Or is the Internet Explorer web browser and Internet advertisements still popular?
[...] article: A Different View of Depression By Zania of Fraying Edges. Here is an excerpt: Now to me, that is an extremely positive approach to [...]
Hi Andy,
no it was me making assumptions there, and no, we couldn’t name every American President (or every Spanish one, or English Prime Minister come to that…), but Abraham Lincoln is etched onto most people’s memories, I think, even if they do not know very much about him (something to do with the wide-spread influence of American Culture perhaps…).
The quote about the necessity for isolation, yes, I agree with that too, especially your comments about not having to feel guilty about not getting involved in social interraction when you feel the need for solitude.
But it’s a tough one, when you are surrounded by people, as I have been all my life. I am glad they are there/have been there, don’t get me wrong, and I would be heartbroken to lose any of them, but finding a ’space’ sometimes, without upsetting others can be very difficult…
And no, I never really had any doubts about the relationship between mental illness and creativity (and higher than average intelligence), but to say so out loud (especially when applying this to yourself), can be seen as one of the ’symptoms’ of mental illness itself.
As you note, one of the ’symptoms’ of Hypomania/Bi Polar Disorder, etc, is described as “inflated self-esteem or grandiosity”. Now I don’t need to feel hypomanic at all to know I am creative and intelligent and I know this just as much when I am depressed. And I guess this is one of the reasons why I wrote ‘assumed’ there (it’s a habit we develop I think…).
(and yes, I have always had similar feelings of ‘predestination’, but then I think many of us have these, simply as human beings. It is just that most of us do not admit this for fear of ridicule, and the rest of us feel too overwhelmed by what this actually means to do anything much about it).
The other reason I wrote about my ’suspicions’ is that some who read this may feel much less certain about their creative abilities than you or I do, and I think it’s important not to exclude them from this debate.
I was also very aware that some people reading this whilst suffering from depression may actually feel, “well, it was all very well for Abe Lincoln, but I am not of that character set”, and it may make them feel even more depressed.
Guess I was trying to cover all angles there…
But yes, I’m looking forward to reading the book very much and hoping it confirms my ’suspicions’
As to the adsense comment to Frank, I just get a little tired of people setting up ‘depression blogs’ purely for adsense and then going out and hoping to get clicks on their adds by commenting on blogs like mine. I have a few adsense blogs out there just like that (but not on depression), and have no objection to mfa blogs at all, but I provide backlinks for them in other ways, rather than by wasting my time commenting on blogs which do not even provide a ‘dofollow’ link.
)
But what really concerns me is this: there are some subjects which are ‘good game’ for getting adsense clicks, I just think that the subject of depression is much too serious to be one of those.
(And I never use Adblock. I need to see those adds to sort out the competition
Interesting coincidence–the book’s prologue starts with a short story about a remote village where they ask about the great leader who forgave his enemies….. the point of the story was to impress upon reader’s Lincoln’s popularity.
Ah yes, I am familiar with “feelings of grandiosity.” I got that one “right” on my last psych test. All the questions were true/false. One was “I appeared on the cover of several news magazine last year.” I answered false, but the results still showed I had grandiose ideation. Maybe it’s because I indeed was on the cover of several magazine last year, but felt I had to lie because no famous person would be caught dead taking a psych test. (j/k)
So let’s see, who had feelings of grandiosity?
John Lennon, whose birthday was October 9 btw, used to tell his Aunt Mimi that he and his band would be bigger than Elvis Presley.
George Clooney, I recently learned, told his high school teacher to save his homework because he’d be famous one day.
Abraham Lincoln… ’nuff said.
Thomas Edison’s teacher thought he was “addled” so his mother pulled him out of school and home-schooled him. He only had three months of formal schooling.
John Steinbeck had problems with anxiety.
Well, I might as well stop now; there are already sites dedicated to this. I should find a good one and link to it sometime.
Ah yes, you are very clever and correct. There are so many characteristics of mental illness–the term itself is a blanket statement. So many types exist I couldn’t even list them all. Some people will not be creative, and some will be, as with the general population. Perhaps a simple way to remember it is: “If you have a mental illness you may have above average intelligence or be a creative person, just like anyone else; However, if you are a famous artist, writer, actor, physicist, scientist, inventor, the chances are much greater that you definitely have a mental illness.” What do you think of that wording, Zania? I know I could have written it more clearly, but I’m lazy now. I’ll give a creative commons derivatives-allowed license and you can tidy it up if you’d like.
I’m writing off the cuff again, but at least now I have the confidence to know that Zania will correct me!
“If you have a mental illness you may have above average intelligence or be a creative person, just like anyone else. However, if you are a famous artist, writer, actor, physicist, scientist, inventor, the chances are much greater that you definitely have a mental illness.”
All I changed was a ‘;’ to a ‘.’ …
And I think that will suffice
“no famous person would be caught dead taking a psych test”
Of course not…
Interesting about the ‘famous/intelligent people’ you mentioned there and how people’s views about their ‘claims’ relates very much to their own short comings (It will almost go without saying that Thomas Edison’s teacher was much less intelligent than Edison).
Reading about reactions to John Lennon’s political/philosophical views. It seems to me that when he was saying things the media approved of, he was seen as a ‘creative genius’ (even though some of his earlier ramblings were really just that - ill-formed ramblings, and he probably laughed all the way to the bank with their ‘rewards’), but when he made more ‘controversial’ statements (according to the media anyway) which were much better formed, he was derided as ‘off his head’.
Just a thought…
[...] could be, of course, that he fits the criteria discussed in my previous post on A Different View Of Depression, in that he is creative and gifted, and thus perhaps more likely to be a ‘candidate for [...]
I’ve watched many documentaries about the Beatles and John Lennon, and read Ray Coleman’s “Definitive Biography.” So here again is a subject that if I started writing about, I’d have little time left to do other things that need to be done.
But it’s an interesting point you made. I’m one that believes his supposedly controversial comments about Jesus were indeed taken out of context. I read the entire transcript of the interview with Maureen Cleave, and he clearly was not making any egotistical statement about the Beatles being better than Jesus Christ.
As for your edit, I never mind them. Thanks. For some reason I have it in my head to almost always use however in the middle of a sentence as a conjunction, and never start a sentence with it. I treat it similarly to and and but. But, however, I will on occasion start sentences with and or but. I go through phases where I actively work on writing better, however, other times I find it’s better just to write and figure there’ll always be time to polish my skills (practicing patience, so to speak).
em dashes and semi-colons still pose a problem for me, and I think I may superfluously employ the use of that.
I have read that interview too and I agree with your assessment. I guess the ’supposed statement’ simply made ’shock news’ on a ‘no news day’.
As for ‘that’ - I can never work out whether to use ‘which’ or ‘that’ and it depends on which editor I am using anyway (UK or US)… or is that anyhow….
It is even worse in Spanish as ‘which’ should be ‘cual’, but only in certain circumstances….
Personally, I just write as I feel and try to correct the typos before publishing
Oh by the way, I did respond to your emails, but the ‘mail daemon’ (or whatever it’s called…) refused to take my email - could be because of my address….
I responded to this on your writing site, http://writing-resource.com/2008/06/14/you-can-write-but-can-you-deliver/
I thought responding to it there would be less confusing for me when I try to keep up with my comments.